New First Page! Only Different!

[Hunkah]

I have been searching for a different HTML editor and I came accross HTML Builder XP! I looks feels and tastes like First Page! I swear they are from the same gene-pool!
HTML Builder XP (http://www.code-builders.com/)

[cbkihong]

... the commercial version as mentioned by the forum admins?

Possibly they have changed their minds and no longer wish to actively maintain first page anymore.

[DarkSloth]

Woh.. That is crazy. They got a forum and everything. Wierd. THey also named it LITE prolly meaning they will release a purchase version, just like evrsoft. They also have a BUY software where they explain that you don't need to buy it, just like evrsoft.

And in their forum they got the super mod named Forum Admin, almost the same name as our, long departed and maybe assassinated friend, Admin. Wierd. "Its like looking in a mirror." Kick ass find! :jumpy:

[denismc]

I've been waiting for the Improved version for........ seems like years now.

Just visited the forum for the first time in about a month, looking for news of the latest 1st page and spotted this thread.

Just had to download and instal HTML Builder XP, and yes this would seem to be the new 1st page; so so similiar in look and feel.

Why the need to shaft (can I use that word on the forum?) and ENTHUSIASTIC user community in this way?

A note about the LITE version - it is free providing you host your results on their service. Looks cheap but does it deliver?

[Flogg]

Hum they are both registered through godaddy.com and by the looks of it they are both in Golden Coast (Don't have a clue where that is).

[Flogg]

One of the things I don't like is how there is no live spell checking. But it's almost like FP2!

[D84_UK]

Before everyone works themselves into a lather over an evrsoft connection, Code Builders have stated in the past, pretty categorically, that there's no connection in any way. They seemed to think evrsoft were no longer a going concern and were just stringing people along - looks a pretty accurate assessment to me.

Having just checked their forum, it appears it's been reset so the posts from last year on the subject have disappeared.

I downloaded an earlier version of HTML Builder XP sometime in the middle of last year. At that point, the lite version was free - a few weeks later they changed it over so it was time-limited and you had to pay. They've obviously now realised no one was prepared to pay for it!

It was extremely bug-ridden (presumably that's now improved) - I'm downloading the new version as I type. The one major problem I had with it was that the file manager couldn't be moved from the left hand side. Might seem trivial, but I like to be able to configure my workspace.

[scottyman]

functionality seems much the same - also most like a slightly bugfixed version, but alot of parsing seems to be missing!

[GrimReaper]

Hi All,

Code Builders here... I have posted a lengthy message to David Bindel who e-mailed me earlier today. The e-mail details a lot about HTML Builder XP and 1stpage and some relationships between the two.

It's quite a long message and David did take the time to e-mail me so i'll let him post it up for you all to read.

I was just coming on to ask that if any of you experienced web developers find things that are missing from HTML Builder XP that are useful to yourself for you to post them in the feature requests section of our website, so that we can fix them / add them in the next few weeks.

Thanks all!
Chris out.:)

[scottyman]

you've got to admit - it's quite surreal running them side by side! :)

[D856C]

Before everyone works themselves into a lather over an evrsoft connection, Code Builders have stated in the past, pretty categorically, that there's no connection in any way.

I concur with D84_UK, but the forums over there were purged recently. (First thing to do is put up a FAQ on this in C-B forums.

This was rehashed also in Yahoogroups/1stpage2000users/ (now defunct sad to say).

While using XP since v3, it is nice. Finally, in the just downloaded v5.2lite there is some serious value. (Good going on moving toward project-centric rather than page-cetric metaphor) a serious gap much improved. Give it a try.

[DCElliott]

Interesting rip-off of a rip-off.

They fixed some of the things that don't work in FP. but there is a lot of stupid stuff, too. Like run HTML Tidy and you get warnings but cant get back to your edit window. You either block and copy warnings to another window somewhere, or you have to accept the "corrections".

Frankly I don't like it. the standard interface wastes WAY too much space on creating massive XP style buttons. Gimme a fricking break! Many of the dialogue boxes are similarly XP interface heavy to no obvious benefit. In Advanced mode it is not too bad.

Did anyone check out the Chat feature? that might have some future potential. The FTP client died on me immediately.

Close but no cigar.

[D856C]

They fixed some of the things that don't work in FP. but there is a lot of stupid stuff, too.

Instead of the command line switch HARDCORE, you have to select Options ... General Preferences. This allows you to turn off a lot of the clutter on a permanent basis.

As for the rest, these (and others you'll discover) should be better handled than the version number would suggest. (v3 was only months ago -- and they don't seem to follow generally accepted versioning conventions. This should be, a guess, v3.4 instead of 5.2). I've found something to hate in every new version of every program, and don't fool myself thinking it would be different for the now-mythic FP3. ...The movie is never as good as the book and so on.

The tradeoff is simple -- they are actively incorporating suggestions on a near continuous basis. The features you may not be fully considering are: active incorporation of suggestions and a track record nearly opposite Eversoft.

Does Builder match some impression of what the mythic FP3 would be? Not a chance. Is that a fair basis for comparison? Probably not.

[dreuby]

Does it need XP to run? I can't find system requirements on the site.

[D856C]

Does it need XP to run? I can't find system requirements on the site.

Runs on win 95/98se/2000 not just XP, memory fails me as to RAM requirements. I believe I have run with systems at 32 and 64, but mostly 64. The purge of the forum and recent redesign wiped a lot of this convenient stuff out.

[GrimReaper]

Hi All,

It's been about 15hrs since I posted to david bindel and the message I sent him hasn't yet appeared on the board. I can only guess he is busy with something at the moment as he usually seems to post every 10 mins. :)

Here's the message I posted to him, I can field most questions, except for contact info for Napoleon, he seems to not want to be contacted and i'm going to respect his privacy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MESSAGE
------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a question that we get a lot because of the similarities between 1stpage, homesite and HTML Builder XP. I also noticed that you were an admin / regular in the evrsoft forums, so i'll give you the full story so people can have it Napoleon (thats the maker of 1stpage) is probably sick of typing it out as well.

So here goes,

Q) Does 1stpage have any relation to HTML Builder XP?

A) Ok, this is a double sided answer really, the strait up answer is no, HTML Builder XP has absolutely no relation to 1stpage. However, the real question should be does 1stpage have any relation to a HTML editor called Under Construction 98 and does HTML Builder XP have any relation to Under Construction 98?. The answer to that would be YES, most definately. And, so comes the History of Napoleon Pham and myself.

The History (Just to clear this up for everyone).
-------------------------------------------------

In 1997 there were two young guys named Napoleon Pham and Christopher Cowling. They went in High School together on the sunny Gold Coast of Australia, one day they read a paper that said "Hotdog v1.0 , Makes web pages easy" (or something like that), so they went and downloaded a shareware version of the software and said "This is terrible, we could make something way better", and so they did. They spent 10 Months where Chris was programming and Napoleon was drawing graphics and interfaces (it was a really nice interface, kudo's to Napoleon), and finally created a program called Under Construction 98. At the time there were limited editors on the market and Under Construction 98 received excellent publicity which inspired Napoleon and Chris to develop several more versions (it was shareware at the time). Then after two years of creating versions of Under Construction 98 Napoleon and Chris finished highschool and slowly grew apart, never to again release another version of the software.

Then later on the next year a web editor bearing a very similar resemblence to Under Construction 98 came onto the market completely free of charge named 1stpage (you will notice the same right hand color picker on under construction 98 as 1stpage). This wasn't really a big deal to Chris as he had begun doing custom programming for companies and had got into patent protected server systems as a business, (aka Code Builders). About 1.5 years later again, Christopher decided to spend the time and effort to create a web editing program which would rival or even beat that of his old partner Napoleon, another 8 months or so, and HTML Builder XP v1.0 was born. At first it was released as shareware (freeware for a few weeks), where it did reasonably well, however not as well as the core business of Code Builders which is enterprise server systems. Then at the start of the new year Chris decided to release HTML Builder XP - Lite as freeware again, except this time permenantly. He also decided that since 1stpage had almost completely lapsed it's users needed a program which would be updated more often, and with Code Builders core business and Just-Hosting.com supporting this devised a way to fund it as long as the users contributed a small amount through hosting.

And there ya go, thats about it up to now, the weird, strange story of two guys and three web editors. What a history...

Oh, and the present sorry,

Napoleon and Myself talk quite regulary, in fact we talked only a few hours before I started writing this e-mail message to you (no I can't give you his number, address or contact info). Napoleon is a good friend of mine, we share common views and he is a very nice caring person, I have absolute respect for him, his abilities and his company evrsoft and affiliated entities. We both live within a couple of miles of each other (about 10 - 15 miles), and have done for the last 10 years or so.Additionally, HTML Builder XP doesn't share any source code, nothing was "ripped off" and vica versa, HTML Builder XP was created from scratch. The only thing that makes it look like and work like 1stpage is that it was made by one of a group of two who share the same ideas, and most of the same beliefs.

------------------------------
Under Construction 98 Links
------------------------------
http://www.sharewarejunkies.com/8zwd7/under_construction_98.htm <- Full
review of the old program

http://www.roketdownload.com/details.php?pid=319&tavsiye=0 <- Pretty much
the only downloadable file of it left. That I could find.
------------------------------

** Additionally, I noticed that some of you are posting items in these forums that you don't like or think should need changing about HTML Builder XP. I ask again, could you please post these into the Code Builders Feature Requests topic on the Forums at code builders web site (www.code-builders.com). That way we can keep them handy and fix them within a few weeks. It will also allow us to get HTML Builder XP up to the standard you expect from other award winning products like 1stpage. :D **

Thanks All!

Chris. :)

[DCElliott]

Thank you for helping clear the mystery and the air. When I used the term "rip-off" I was talking about the general look and feel which both programs share with homesite and each other.

You must appreciate that there are devoted followings of these programs and, particularly in FPs case, the devotees have been teased and tantalized for a couple of years now. We have this forum which everyone thought was a sign of FP 3's imminent release. But it has been largely a frustration as far as anticipation of FP has been concerned - with no admin and various other problems re hosting, etc.

The Natives are growing restless, grumpy, well, you know. Plus, living in the upper hemisphere drains all the blood out of our brains. I would like to congratulate you both on creating a great program that could, if only, be so much better.

Any chance of you lads getting back together?

Regardless of what happens - give Napoleon best wishes from this FP user.

[GrimReaper]

Hi DCElliott,


> I would like to congratulate you both on creating a great
> program that could, if only, be so much better.

Thanks for the congrats on both the programs, both of us spend some considerable time creating the software. For general information HTML Builder XP wasn't even ready for general use after 7 months of programming day in and day out, it really does take a long time to create a program the calibur of these HTML Editors, personally the full development of HTML Builder XP to where it is now has probably taken about a year full time. So it's *always* appreachiated when we hear comments from users saying they like using the software. :)

Additionally, I really can't see Napoleon and myself getting back together to do any major projects together. Over time we have developed our differences and although we remain good friends working together is probably a stretch.

Btw, I would tell Napoleon kudo's for the editor from you, but really if he wanted to see that I think he should frequent his own forums. (my personal oppionion).

And again, I know you all want several features in your editors, please post any feature requests in the Code-Builders forums at http://www.code-builders.com and i'll attempt to add them to HTML Builder XP in a few weeks.

Have a blast people.
I check back here at least once a day.

(P.S. I don't know when FP3 is actually coming out either, i'm told the same dates as all of you).

Chris. (Out).:cool:

[Flogg]

If he doesn't come out with FP3 by the end of March I think I'll stick with HTML Builder XP because to sound your more active with your site then Napoleon is with his.

[bosswana]

If you are wondering about the Golden Coast I would say it is Gold Coast (which is in Australia) with is a city famous for its surf beaches. It also happens to have a very strong commercial computer gaming development industry and a univeristy (2 actually) one which is world renown for its graphics, multi-media and computing sciences (Griffith University).

You always get someone who comes up with this interesting but totally useless trivia :p

[denismc]

Originally posted by BigTony
When I checked evrsoft.com today, it was a blank page...so i figured...refresh the page...nope

so i cleared my browsers cache, and i still cant see it...it has no source either.

Is ne1 else having this problem?
Just tried, and had no problems :)

... but no new info since Sept. :eek:

[GrimReaper]

General Trivia.

The Gold Coast is in Australia, it's where both Napoleon and myself live. In fact we both attended the Griffith university which is the university mentioned in the post from bosswana. It's truely excellent here and yet strange at the same time.

What I mean is that we have the best beaches in the world absolutely no doubt at all, we also have a population the size of a small town in the USA, the strange thing being that we produce an ultra high number of talented I.T. people! I mean, one of my buddies who also lives here is the head programmer for Urban Terror (an extreemly popular mod for Quake 3). Now, come on, what's the go with that? shouldn't we all be at the beach or something?, soaking up the sun? (I'm talking to all you Canadians and UK'ers here!). :)

Anyway,
Strange place this gold coast, but hey, if it didn't exist neither would HBXP or 1stPage.

Chris. (out).

[mejobloggs]

Gotta be something going on here. Some parts are EXACTLY the same. It is too close to be coincedince (spelling?).
Far Out!

Maybe Evrsoft copied them, and got busted or something.

Look at the Advanced mode! nearly exactly the same!

Some things are a bit different, and i think all the XP stuff looks odd, even though im used to XP

[mejobloggs]

Ooops. Sorry. I juat read the first couple of posts, then downloaded it, and then did my post. I guees I should read it all in future. :(

[BigTony]

Originally posted by dbindel
To everyone: I've been conversing with GrimReaper about Evrsoft/Napolean and 1st Page, and I'll report my findings sometime tomorrow.

When is tomorrow? Today, or was it supposed to be yesterday? Eh, I don't know...I just want to know what's happening!

[BigTony]

Wow...this makes me want to switch to HTML Builder. Much more...better! I don't know...

[EnwTheGood]

Wow... you'll actually uphold the free hosting offer? Wow. I'm going to have to start referring people to just-hosting.com!

[DarkSloth]

I'm glad those two are still friends. I'm also amazed that he would just honor the webspace for those guys like that. He seems like a really great guy... *unless he's trying to boost his own ego j/k. But I wonder if not posting in the forum is because he was taking his last finals. It would make a lot of sense. I wouldn't want to work or answer questions after studying forever, I would want to play games or sleep.

[Hunkah]

HOLY COW!!! I didn't expect this! I took a couple days off from my regular computer sites and *BLAMO* my posting turned into the hot spot! I haven't checked back since I posted. This is all amazing!
Chris, we have an expression here in Canada, "You-da-man" We here in this forum love you soooo much, I know that you already have my loyalty. I too have waited, got upset, and now I have you! :D
This is so cool, I knew that there was some connection between the two programs. There were just too many things that looked alike.
Well I just want to say, all we ask is to be informed, software is like some music groups, they have a cult like following and we will fight somone to get front row seats. So keep up the good work and we will keep downloading it!

[GrimReaper]

Hi All,

Thanks for the support with HTML Builder XP. I have received so many bug reports and feature requests I should be able to produce a much more refined v5.5 of the program in the next few weeks.

Oh, and as a little advertising plug here, remember Just-Hosting.Com allows me to keep developing this product, so if you do make a page please check out Just-Hosting.Com and support HTML Builder XP by getting an account there. (Hey, you could even transfer your sites across if you wanted). :p

Thanks again all! and if you want to chat about either 1stpage, HTML Builder XP or anything feel free to add yourself to my ICQ list.
ICQ: 197633574
(I also check this board and Code-Builders board daily).

Chris. :D

[DCElliott]

I'm just a little concerned that David Bindel has selected the most negative comments from a very long instant messaging exchange. I would encourage readers to d/l the text file and judge for themselves. Clearly GrimReaper has, as we say up here in the frozen north, his own ax to grind. I am in no way suggesting dishonesty or malicious intent on anyone's part. I want that to be clear.

Being one and working with programmers allows me to appreciate the subtle and not-so-subtle one-up-manship (to be politically correct I should say one-up-personship - but it always seems that the males are the worst :p) that goes on when talking code and what your stuff can do. If Nap and Grim don't have more than a little programming testosterone flowing here, then I'll agree to watch a 24 hour marathon of Crocodile Hunter!

Grim's offer is generous, but he is also hustling for a user community poached from among the people who frequent his competitor's board. It seems just a bit . . . I'm not sure what the right word is . . . not exactly bad form, but close.

On the other hand, he has shown an obvious vigorous involvement and engagement with his user community. That is a very positive thing, and it is a utter shame that Nap or Admin or whoever is responsible for FP3 hasn't tapped that incredible resource and energy embodied in a good part of the user community here. Grim obviously knows a good thing when he sees it! :D

[GrimReaper]

Hi DCElliott,

I think everyone here is entitled to their oppionion about the situation that FP3 is in and I definately agree that before people make up their mind they read the conversation between David and myself.

Additionally, I would like to point out that you are correct, I would love to have dedicated, insightful and professional people who frequent this board using HTML Builder XP. However, I think that the term "bad form" should be placed on that of the person who made the deal in the first place (admin...) and not that of the person who is offering to honer a deal which was not honered by that person, again your entitled to your opinion, but when was the last time you heard from admin?.

If any of you have any questions after reading the chat script post them here and i'm more then happy to answer them.

Chris Out.:D

[DCElliott]

No question about the bad form of someone offering hosting as an inducement to jump-start this forum and then failing to honour those committments. It just plain sucks.

I also think Bill Gates is a lying, bullying sack of sh|t but I still use his buggy, unsafe software :D.

What I am trying to inject here is a bit of balance - at this point my "opinion" is pretty neutral, although some facts are pretty clear. Napoleon has been judged against his own pronouncements and has failed. You, Grim, haven't really had your feet held to the fire yet. I like your attitude, and will give you a very big benefit of the doubt and time to pull your rabbit out of a hat.

You may have a good product on your hands, but there are a number of areas where I still prefer FP including: real-time preview, right-click sent to MyCode (unless I'm missing something), the HTML help. On the other hand your implementation of tag inspection is very helpful. In time, the in-program access to chat and forum may be very useful for real-time collaboration. I am compiling a list of bugs/deficiencies/dodgy implementations that I have found and will post them at a later date. (So I guess you have co-opted me into the development effort as well . . . sigh . . . I just don't know when to give up)

If you want to look at a program to emulate in a number of areas - take a long look at HTMLkit. Of special note is the ability to view IE and Gecko rendering side by side. They really scored on that one. The integrated FTP is wonderful as well although they should maintain a local copy of the file (you have to use it to know what I am talking about)

Best wishes

[Hunkah]

Chris, the main thing I don't like about HTML Builder is the XP part. I hate the XP interface and this is just like using XP! I can't stand the loss of working space do to big fat icons and stupid pictures, sure it looks great in the beginning but I don't have a 75" screen and my 17" screen can't hold all those pictures and icons, without making my working space small and hard to use. This is the only real thing that I think FP has on you. I don't use XP and it isn't forced on me by FP.
Accually if I was to choose a second preference it would be that some of your icons are somewhat confusing, if you want... we can maybe draw some for you!
I am not complaining, just suggesting... I will be happier if these are fixed. ;)

[Dynasty]

I have to say that after looking at and using the HTML Builder XP program for a while it is a pretty good piece of software, and yes like (seemingly) everyone else I have a few gripes with it, but as per Grim's request I won't detail them here but will most likely post them on the code builders forum. :D

[Hunkah]

Whoops, I forgot that part, I will post thesee things on the codebuilders too. Sorry 'bout that

[joey]

DCElliott wrote:
Grim's offer is generous, but he is also hustling for a user community poached from among the people who frequent his competitor's board. It seems just a bit . . . I'm not sure what the right word is . . . not exactly bad form, but close.
I have to agree here.

I'm sure HtmlBuilderXP looking just like 1stPage2000 (plus the "Features being developed for III" from evrsoft.com) is more then just a "shared philosophy" between their respective developers -- not to mention the legal aspects when GrimReaper stated to dbindel that he has "actually worked on 1stpage 3". :eek:

But in the end, I guess it all boils down to money -- Napoleon has no real incentive to support a free product/forum, and it allows GrimReaper the opportunity to try a software/webHosting strategy that his friend has obviously abandoned -- which, I believe, will leave HtmlBuilderXP's future very uncertain.


_________________________________
*Developers Note: Using the DreamMemo instead of the TSyntaxMemo will result in a lower-quality text editor.

[GrimReaper]

Hi Joey,

I'll clear a few things up here so here goes:

1) When I say I worked on 1stpage 3, I was asked by Napoleon if I would be able to give him the plugin engine I wrote for HTML Builder XP. I did, and in doing so, had to "splice" it into the source code of 1stpage. Legally, there is nothing wrong there, in fact like I said previously, I didn't even see a "form" or interface if you will.

2) As for an uncertain future for HTML Builder XP. The product is fully supported by Code Builders, which does more then run Just-Hosting.Com, as stated in the conversation the core business of Code Builders is the development of server and communications systems, which in my humble opinion will see HTML Builder XP to a bright an cheery future, definately not an uncertain one. By using Just-Hosting.Com the users are supporting the "continued development" of HTML Builder XP and will fund new version upgrades, especially where items like components are needed... HTML Builder XP has been running successfully for a year, with the longest wait in updates being 3 months which I hope confirms to most that HTML Builder XP isn't going away anytime soon.

Hope this clears things up a little more. A new version of the software will be out in the next few weeks with the bug fixes mentioned in the Code-Builders forums and some of the feature and interface changes.

Thanks for all of your support, everyone!

Chris out.

[GDS]

I actualle don't belive this story fully. Something is missing here!
Why should two good friends actualle build two clones of the same software?

I think we would be better off clearing this out.

My guess is that 1st Page 3 has been ready for a long time, but that a disagreement between Nap and Chris about the "rights" has blocked the release. Or someting like that.

GDS :hmmmm:

[EnwTheGood]

I think Grim has a much better approach; just overtly saying, "I own just-hosting.com, so to support HBXP, host your site there," is a lot more effective than trying to nudge users towards imhosted.com through gushing ads.

[GrimReaper]

Hi GDS,

I don't believe you are missing anything at all. I'm not sure if you have read through the chat and message board, especially the rather large message at the begining about Napoleon and Myself and our history.

We did not in essence make a clone of the same program, we continued on seperate paths from a start where we made a HTML Editor (in 1998). We are good friends, yes, if a building was burning down I would rescue my friend Napoleon and he the same for me of course. We have chosen to do business individually at this point in time, but are looking into business opertunities where we will work together again. Who knows, maybe 1stpage 4 will end up being 1stbuilder 1.0? .. (No that Hasn't been discussed, its just an example).

There is no anamosity between Napoleon and myself, there is no pending lawsuit, there has been no interaction between myself and the first page program other then giving my friend some source code and tooling it into the program for him.

As some famous person said, "just keep the faith" and "assuming makes an ass of you and me".. :)

Have fun all.... thats what webpage development is all about.. :) oh, and thankyou to everyone here who has been using HTML Builder XP especially those who have taken their time and submitted bug reports, feature requests and heck even said "thanks for the program" on icq. :-)

Chris Out.

[Hunkah]

C'mon you guys! Give Chris a break! Like I can't figure out you people that make demands on people that are making your software for free!!! You think it is yours to control and command like you are flipping the bill! Knock it of and say please once in a while! Jeeze, if it was me, I'd tell you to shut-up and find another frigging software maker to hassle!!!
I still shake my head at you!
Chris I think you are cool and I say please! I think you making money is ok... (just not from me though! he he ;) I can't afford anything right now!)

[ByteWizard]

I am curious why you are so quick to second quess Chris (GrimReaper) when he has a product offering and 1st Page does not. At least he will address questions and face the members of this forum.

[Anon]

Originally posted by GrimReaper
Hi GDS,

As some famous person said, "just keep the faith" and "assuming makes an ass of you and me".. :)



That later quote is a bit incorrect.
The original phrase is, "When you ASSUME, you make an ASS out of U and ME."
Changing the spelling to assuming totally ruins the spelling because "Me" is no longer in the original word.

[DCElliott]

Anon - you joined the forum just so you could post that?

We should be so flattered. I, for one, feel thoroughly straightened out now.

No worries, Anon, just jerking your chain back!

Welcome aboard - we need someone with more than a 6th grade education here once in a while. :o

[BigTony]

Grim,

Was HTML Builder XP supposed to be Under Construction XP?

I just noticed that in the screenshots of HBXP, it says some stuff like "Exit UCXP"

Under Construction XP

I was just curious, cuz it didn't seem right for it to say "UCXP"

¡Adios!

[Hunkah]

DC, I am glad that you have seen the light! ;)

[GrimReaper]

Hi BigTony,

You are quite correct, that did mean Under Construction XP. When I was first developing HTML Builder XP, I didn't have a name chosen yet, so everywhere where the name was supposed to be I chose to put UCXP because it was a familiar name to me and then I could just do a "search and replace" when I needed to change it. So, it was really an "Alpha" name for HTML Builder XP, which is the name you have when you have no name.

hmmm.. maybe I should update those screenshots... ;-)

(Anon: Thanks for tha ASSUME pull up there, I think I made an ass of me with that one :p)

Got any more questions, just post them.. :-)

Chris Out.

[GDS]

Ok, I withdraw my guessing's. I don't have any evidence at all. The only person to bring some light to this is Napoleon. It would be nice to hear from him, to have him tell us what is upholding the release of 1st Page 3 and so on.

As I see it, 1st Page 2000 is still a superior product, and I would very much like to see it improved.

On the other hand, the HB-XP could evolve far beyound that with the help of an active support group, and a programmer that has time to follow up.

Programming is only half the job, and the rest could be done by us.

That was the intention, I think, in the first place, with this forum?
What will happen now, might be that people will move to the new forum, and drain the resources needed to grind down the bugs of 1st Page 3.

If there not will be any 1st Page 3 showing up in the near future, that would be a natural choice and probably not harm anyone.

No, I don't think that we shold bow in the dust for anyone, and I want to know what is going on. We would be better off then.

GDS

[Admin]

After reading through this entire thread and reading the chat conversation between dbindel and GrimReaper(Chris), I am truely sadden to see the way Chris has seized upon the opportunity to bad mouth myself and in return advertise his company. One example of this is requesting our moderator to delete/modify my threads to advertise his company. There was a reason why I no longer work with my old partner and it's obvious why.

Also, one thing I can assure you is that once 1st Page 3 is out, a few months later you will see all the features duplicated and copied to HTML builder.