Site Counters

[Anime_Lover]

Hi all I just read that using counters on your web site is not a good idea. I was wondering now that I am drafting my site what you all thought of using counters?
Thanks Debra

[themadpoet]

I agree with David up to a point unless you are selling advertising space or other space on your site and those advertising on your site will require records on visitors.


As a general rule I use a hit counter which doesnt display numbers usually.

Try Bravenet (http://www.bravenet.com) for hit counters as it shows, views and information on what screen size, browser and so on visitors are using which can be useful, what time most visitors are using your site allowing you to plan maintenace and it has a non count displaying option as well.

[Anime_Lover]

Thanks David and Elliott for your advise. I think after reading the article and the posts I will hold off with a counter. I really do not need one being its a personal site and not a business site.
I will have more questions coming.

[alahol2]

I'd beg to differ.
I use a counter that gives me details of page views, viewing time, referring page etc etc.
It's interesting...especially if it's just a personal site. Don't you want to know who's visiting and, when you know, wonder why?
Why did my site come up 2nd out of over 3 million results on a search someone did for 'family photos'? That's plain spooky, or maybe I'm doing something right, I just don't know what it is!
Why is somebody in Baghdad looking at my site? I've had visitors from over 20 different countries...why? There's nothing of earth shattering interest. Look beyond the coding, there's a whole world out there...

[animgirl]

Yeah, I used to use counters on my personal site because I wanted to know soo bad how many people were hitting it. But with my new server I get stats and so I took the counters out. They didn't really "add" to the page LOL.

BUT I do have clients that like 'em...
animgirl

[D856C]

Consider that a counter can count pretty much anything.

Thus the infamous You Are Visitor 95478596 can become, with a little careful consideration, 57 Visitors Became First Time Buyers, Saving an Average of $37.82.

A redesigned site might put up a counter based on data culled from usability testing. "The Average Order Now Takes Just 2 Minutes, 32 Seconds To Complete.

Do you need a formal "counter" for some of this? No. Just rethink the idea in terms of what makes sense for your users, and what might be informative to them. You can list a hundred different statistics, like how many ideas submitted from a feedback form get implemented in some way. If your customers are busieness people, and shipping has just completed an assessment, put the fact 97.63% of orders arrive on time.

Or any one of a hundred other ideas. This has little to do with Web counters. It has rather more to do with what the people building the sites choose to count.

[animgirl]

Good Ideas D856C!
Those are great ;)

animgirl

[D856C]

Thank you. I am looking for additional ideas.

...you know, for The Catalog (http://designcrux.netfirms.com/catalog_unfindablewebwidgets.html)

[drak]

Actually being old school and stuff its always a nice geek like thing to see what your page hits are like. In a transparent mode your geek like friends won't want to see your page hits. Most ISP's have an internal app that can be run on your site for a transparent count and statistics.

On a more bland and professional note the idea of a page counter is a bad idea.

Altering the focus of your customers or target groups. Its just bad practice. counters come with 3rd party clicks and other things. As a ordinary geek, I use a page counter with an odd looking header... example is my home page.

The counter is free and its just a text java link. the guest book I have and the forum is also from the company that provides the counter. Simple basic. and add free. =p

I guess I could use my isp host tools to do it but I like to support the free world and other 3rd party cool tools.

Scripthost.com (http://cgi.scripthost.com)

Simple fast effective.

[Anime_Lover]

Hi Drak,
I have a couple of questions on some of your points. I went to the ScriptHost site and saved in my favorites. The idea of transparent counters sounds interesting. Does ScriptHost have that type? Also sorry to sound confused but your 1st paragraph says it is nice to see your hits but the next paragraph you say bad idea. So here I am confused. I do understand that you are talking about both ends but if someone uses the transparent counter is that still in bad taste?

Then you said altering the focus of your I call them guests because I have a personal site, so please explain how a counter alters the guest? I have been to many sites and really never pay attention to counters so I asking are people turned off by them and is that what you are saying?

Lastly I joined a web ring and I was thinking a counter would be necessary being I am in the ring? Does anyone else belong to rings and if so do you find counters are needed?

I really like the idea of a transparent one so if you can tell me how it works and how to code it I would like to give it a try.
Thank you.

Originally posted by drak
Actually being old school and stuff its always a nice geek like thing to see what your page hits are like. In a transparent mode your geek like friends won't want to see your page hits. Most ISP's have an internal app that can be run on your site for a transparent count and statistics.

On a more bland and professional note the idea of a page counter is a bad idea.

Altering the focus of your customers or target groups. Its just bad practice. counters come with 3rd party clicks and other things. As a ordinary geek, I use a page counter with an odd looking header... example is my home page.

The counter is free and its just a text java link. the guest book I have and the forum is also from the company that provides the counter. Simple basic. and add free. =p

I guess I could use my isp host tools to do it but I like to support the free world and other 3rd party cool tools.

Scripthost.com (http://cgi.scripthost.com)

Simple fast effective.

[Anime_Lover]

David I also joined a web ring newgroup so I can learn about web rings and someone posted that they are the owner of a web ring and he requires his members to have a counter and to send him the info each month.
I didnt know there was any info other then seeing the # on your site. I guess there is more to counters then meets the eyes?

[Anime_Lover]

Thanks David I will send an email right off to him. He hasn’t put it in his welcome mail so I am guessing a counter isn’t necessary.
I do have to say I am intrigued about the talk of transparent counters. I would love to see one in action but I guess I cant hence the term "transparent"
LOL

[drak]

At one end of the spectrum a counter is good when it is not transparent. Usually just a neat little tid bit for the folks that like to see themselves log to a page by a counter. (example a personal home page, a user directed hobby page, a page with content useless to most of the public. =p )

On the other end of the spectrum a person in a more professional note it is unwise to have a counter that ticks and has its numbers shown to the direct public. Lets say you have a web site that is directed to um lets say Web development. It is suggested to not have the ticker present and what you are directed to your publics appeal.

Transparent is good, all the way around. For your own knowledge base. Nobody can see it or access it. or whatever the case maybe. Their are many kinds of counters that do more than just count. Most non-commercial ones display stats and things etc. as well as the logo image. some are text some are images, some are locally stored and some are javascripts that call to the server that are counting for you.

Locally stored :: -common-
There are CGI and Perl counters (the most common of all the locally stored counters) Others are Php/ASP related.

Http call :: -even more common-
the Javascript call to the servers that count your page hits. A small bot may be used to count the page or the trip of the signal of just the click.
Samples of these are the ones from scripthost.com(simple just the count)
more complex ones are the ones from
bravenet.com(complex and records statistical info of the website you have)

Some are ad driven some are transparent. Some take a bit of knowledge to decifer. Others are a dirty image logo that will link to the hosting server of the counter.

I'd check first with your web page host. Since most hosts have a transparent recorders and are freely distributed on there servers only.

Here is a cut and past of the transparent of my website statistical info. Not much to look at since my host dumps the stats every quarter.

<!--snip-->
Unique Visitors (top)
There were 203 unique visitors between 5-3-2002 and 1-1-2099.
On 2003-07-09, you had 88 unique visitors.
On 2003-07-10, you had 22 unique visitors.
On 2003-07-11, you had 37 unique visitors.
On 2003-07-12, you had 23 unique visitors.
On 2003-07-13, you had 33 unique visitors.

Hits (top)
There were 328 files served ("hits") between 5-3-2002 and 1-1-2099.
On 2003-07-09, you served 96 files ("hits").
On 2003-07-10, you served 28 files ("hits").
On 2003-07-11, you served 60 files ("hits").
On 2003-07-12, you served 32 files ("hits").
On 2003-07-13, you served 112 files ("hits").

HTML Page Views (top)
There were 33 HTML pages served between 5-3-2002 and 1-1-2099.
On 2003-07-09, you served 15 HTML pages.
On 2003-07-10, you served 7 HTML pages.
On 2003-07-11, you served 4 HTML pages.
On 2003-07-12, you served 2 HTML pages.
On 2003-07-13, you served 5 HTML pages.

Bytes Served (top)
There were 3,241,610 bytes, or 3.09 megabytes served between 5-3-2002 and 1-1-2099.
On 2003-07-09, you served 1,516,753 bytes, or 1.44 megabytes
On 2003-07-10, you served 402,158 bytes, or .38 megabytes
On 2003-07-11, you served 505,359 bytes, or .48 megabytes
On 2003-07-12, you served 365,811 bytes, or .34 megabytes
On 2003-07-13, you served 451,529 bytes, or .43 megabytes

Graph of Site Traffic (top)

Hits Per Hour (top)

File Types Served (top)
.gif: 258
.html: 33
.css: 24
.png: 9
.jpg: 4

Browsers Visitors Used To See Your Site (top)
Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.01: 7
Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.5: 32
Microsoft Internet Explorer 6.6: 150
Netscape Navigator 5.5: 116
Other: 23

Operating Systems Visitors Used To See Your Site (top)
Linux: 2
Other: 24
Windows 2000: 251
Windows 98: 51

Domains Referring Traffic (top)
http://www.shadowraven.org: 119
http://bobandmark.com: 64
http://developers.evrsoft.com: 16
http://www.palmermoose1989.com: 2

URLs Referring Traffic (top)
http://www.shadowraven.org/forum/showthread.php: 119
http://bobandmark.com/theboard/viewtopic.php: 58
http://developers.evrsoft.com/forum/showthread.php: 16
http://bobandmark.com/theboard/profile.php: 6
http://www.palmermoose1989.com: 2

Sites STEALING bandwidth from you and Web1000 by hotlinking your files (top)
http://www.shadowraven.org/forum/showthread.php: 2,039,484 bytes, or 1.94 megabytes
http://bobandmark.com/theboard/viewtopic.php: 407,426 bytes, or .38 megabytes
http://developers.evrsoft.com/forum/showthread.php: 155,878 bytes, or .14 megabytes
http://bobandmark.com/theboard/profile.php: 75,678 bytes, or .07 megabytes

The number of hits each of your files got: (top)
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/de_avatars/xdrakermithken.gif: 134
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/funky/super1deavatar.gif: 34
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/index.html: 12
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1.html: 8
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/de_avatars/matrix.gif: 7
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/index_files/stylish.css: 7
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/index_files/style.css: 7
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/de_avatars/pee.gif: 6
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1_files/left_menu_block.gif: 5
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1_files/left_menu_footer.gif: 5
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1_files/backdropyo.png: 5
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1_files/pblnx3.gif: 5
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1_files/mailing.gif: 4
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1_files/right_menu_header.gif: 4
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1_files/main_bl_mian_left.gif: 4
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1_files/feat_bl_left_vert.gif: 4
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1_files/main_bl_botom_right.gif: 4
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1_files/right_menu_footer.gif: 4
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1_files/right_menu_block.gif: 4
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1_files/main_bl_mian_right.gif: 4
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1_files/de_hdr.jpg: 4
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1_files/style.css: 4
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1_files/main_bl_botom_tile.gif: 4
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1_files/feat_bl_right_vert.gif: 4
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1_files/detower.png: 4
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1_files/stylish.css: 4
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1_files/left_menu_header.gif: 4
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1_files/main_bl_top_left.gif: 4
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1_files/main_bl_botom_left_small.gif: 4
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/1_files/dot.gif: 4
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/cgistor/yabb/yabbhelp/yabbhelp.css: 2
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/phs_howto/bluemarb.gif: 2
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/cgistor/yabb/yabbhelp/login.html: 2
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/cgistor/yabb/yabbhelp/adminfaq.html: 2
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/cgistor/yabb/yabbhelp/profile.html: 2
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/phs_howto/index.html: 2
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/cgistor/yabb/yabbhelp/memfunc.html: 1
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/cgistor/yabb/yabbhelp/images/yabb_logo.gif: 1
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/cgistor/yabb/yabbhelp/images/valid-html401.gif: 1
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/cgistor/yabb/yabbhelp/posting.html: 1
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/cgistor/yabb/yabbhelp/modact.html: 1
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/cgistor/yabb/yabbhelp/introduction.html: 1
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/cgistor/yabb/yabbhelp/registering.html: 1
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/cgistor/yabb/yabbhelp/images/valid-css.gif: 1
http://digitalelixir.at.lunaticsworld.com/cgistor/yabb/yabbhelp/images/bluearrow.gif: 1
<!--snip-->


--
Probably not a good idea to click the linking images since my host doesn't like a none linked image outside of the servers. =p you've been warned.

[themadpoet]

Just to let you know bravenet has changed their hit counters and IMHO they are now totally naff.....


You can longer keep stats private...

anyone can see where your hits come from......

the hit counter on the page looks like a giant advert for bravenet.....

it only displays the last ten or so hits rather than fifty.....

I'm looking for a new hit counter and closing me bravenet accounts now.

[themadpoet]

Have found a funky new alternative to bravenet.com which is free and gives loads and loads of stats and info.

Check out http://www.statcounter.com/

[alahol2]

The counter I currently use is http://www.sitemeter.com .
You can choose a very discrete counter which, if you want, can be white on white.
The stats are both interesting and useful in that they quote the referring page, entry page, exit page and various counts of pages viewed, time viewed, browser used etc. etc.