Evrsoft Updated-new front image

[GrimReaper2]

I just wanted to be the first to open a thread which will no doubt be discussed.

Check out the evrsoft.com website now.

I believe the new version there has actually been released to a few people for testing. (Or at least one).

[Redhawk]

:crazy:

[Terminator1138]

I just wanted to be the first to open a thread which will no doubt be discussed.

Check out the evrsoft.com website now.

I believe the new version there has actually been released to a few people for testing. (Or at least one).
Please search the forum, you will see and note there have been a few threads dated back in April about the supposed updates. You should have posted in those threads instead of starting a new one. They have been discussed aready Grim. Your posting has been suspicious in the past and I will ask members not to flame here. I will leave this post open for now. The new index just shows a new image. My question, has anyone here besides Grim seen any updates. Please keep this clean and only post relevant information. I do not want to see any post saying, "Its a hoax etc" Thank you. My question is, why just throw up an image on front page...why not update the whole site and get rid of the 2003 version?

I included a few screenies just incase it changes again. The second one is a note that no changes are done to rest of site.

[marksmind]

I haven't seen that front page before. It looks promising. :)

[MikeyF]

Thanks for the update GrimReaper2.

[Terminator1138]

Maybe an update should be from Admin himself, after all, its his product, his site etc.!!..
I advise GrimReaper2 against posting information before that related to information like this. Last time it raised controversy. I see Admin is online and thus invite him to post information relating to FP2006...

Unless it comes from Admin himself is all I'm saying. Frankly I don't trust GrimReaper2...so much has happened between Admin and him. For all members also, Grim posts a short blurb to hype everyone up. I will wait just the same as everyone else. I however do not see Grim as an employee of Admin and thus I think it is not right for him to speak about release dates and announcements relating to FP.

[GrimReaper2]

Get bent Terminator, seriously, go jump off a cliff or something mate...

Im as much a part of the dev team as anyone.

[dabbler]

I am inclined to agree with Terminator that Grim's posts seem to be designed to stir up controversy.
If there is, or ever will be, a new version of the program is immaterial. A picture is posted on the Evrsoft site (again!) and here we go on the same merry-go-round.
If, Grim, you are part of the "dev team", by which I assume you mean development of 1st page team, then either wait until you have something substantial to show, or keep as quiet as Admin does. It is his show, after all, and he chooses not to speak.
I am sure that any Joe off this board would sooner or later have found the new picture - and that is all it is - and you would have got the same controversy running.
It seems to take a long time to produce a new picture, the last one (still extant on Evrsoft site) was 2003. Maybe a faster graphics card or better graphics program would help the "dev team" to make these fantasy pictures more quickly??

[Terminator1138]

You are welcome to your insights. Mine are proven in the annals of evrsoft forums. Thanks dabber :) for your thoughts.

I have seen admin on here twice in two days and have yet to hear anything and the last I knew, Grim was NOT part of the developement team and he was part of Code-Builders. Sorry to upset you GRIM but I did not hear the ad from Admin and like I stated, the meaning Admin (hint Administrator) should be the only one to say any FP updates. I posted asking for clarification for Admin and DE. I will not delete your flamitory post. I will leave others to judge me.

All that I have ever seen Admin post is that he licensed the wrapper for the WYSIWYG part. That does not mean you are the development team.

[DCElliott]

For the record

Grimreaper/Grimreaper2 (a.k.a. Chris Cowling) was a co-developer of 1st Page 2000 with Admin (a.k.a. Napoleon Pham). At some point after release of 1st Page 2000 the two developers went their separate ways, Chris to work on a commercial product marketed as HTML Builder XP (http://www.code-builders.com/hbxp.shtml) and Napoleon on the replacement to 1st Page. Some of the history has been provided by Chris in his post (http://developers.evrsoft.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6818) to the New First Page! Only Different! thread (http://developers.evrsoft.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1040) which should be read in its entirelty for anyone really wanting to get a handle on some of the history of 1st Page and this forum and why certain frictions exist. This old thread has been edited from its original, specifically a post by dbindel (a.k.a. David Bindel) of an IM between Chris and him in which uncomplimentary things were said regarding Napoleon was removed. At one point the entire thread was removed and Grim Reaper was banned by Admin/Napoleon which caused a revolt on the board whereby myself and several other folks left in disgust. Later, after hearing Napoleon's side of the story and receiving his apology for deleting the thread in anger, I returned to this forum and have continued participating since.

David Bindel was an innovative and hightly effective administrator for quite a while here, but became disenchanted and lead a breakaway group to a new forum called Waterloo Developers (Napoleon meets his Waterloo . . . get it). Waterloo never really got off the ground and had internal dissention which resulted in David Bindel leaving that forum as well. (And no - this is not a slap at DB - he was only 15 or 16 at the time and being a brilliant student and coder is not the same as knowing how to maturely handle the diverse personalities and responsibilities of administering a forum. I have no doubt he will make a great leader some day, having learned some very hard lessons.)

After David Bindel left we were in limbo for quite a while and eventually I offered to take over the Administrative duties, although I could never match the energy that DB had put into it. I have been administering here since. Other than a nasty spat between the breakaway Waterloo forum and this one (http://developers.evrsoft.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2027) involving poaching of members, things have been fairly quiet.

This brings me back to Grimreaper2. Chris reregistered and has been dropping little tidbits of 1st Page information here from time to time. Normally a banned member is not allowed to reregister and continue posting but the situation was rather unique.Just wanted to say ver 3.0 exists (http://developers.evrsoft.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2802) is the thread Grimreaper2 started where some additional details started being posted. I permitted the posts and monitored the thread, warning Chris to be on his best behavior. I also admonished other members to treat him respectfully, since as far as I was concerned, he was a member in good standing.

On Jan 17th 2005 Chris posted a profanity-laden message (which was subsequently removed by Admin) directed at myself after finding material that had been restored from an old thread regarding Napoleon's version of the history. The post was a clear violation of the Forum Guidelines (http://developers.evrsoft.com/forum/announcement.php?f=51&announcementid=21), specifically rules (1) Respect your fellow members. Debating your point is fine, but do not personally insult anybody or you will be warned on the first offense and banned on the second at the discretion of the moderator and (7) Refrain from using vulgar or obscene language.

In response, I sent Chris the following PM I had not seen your post of Jan 17th so was a little surprised when I was informed by terminator that there had been a bit of a ruckus. I'd like to clarify issues as they relate to me.

I restored the history thread because, well, it was history of the product development, the relationship between the original coders, and the subsequent developments. I restored what could be restored from the board database as some material had been physically deleted (as you know, boards have different ways of deleting from simply hiding to physically removing from the database). I am sorry if some of the information you feel was important and gave additional context is missing - it certainly was not through being intentionally selective or through malicious intent. There is some history from your point of view here, but I gather this is not to which you were referring.

Chris, I must say I am really disappointed with you. You have proven me right for being cautious and suspicious as I posted previously. You will note, though, I was supportive of your right to post here, and directed others to treat you with respect as you were (then) a member in good standing.

As you know, it is not easy moderating/administrating a board. I stay for the people, for the coding challenges and the learning opportunities, not for new product hype. I try to be as even-handed as possible and don't think I have done anything to warrant the invective you heaped on my head. I certainly haven't been one of the ones in the "whinge bitch or moan" category so the "code it yourself" comment is entirely misplaced.

I think you should hold yourself to the last line of your post - that you were not going to post here any longer. That would be for the best. Given your history and the fact that you were expected to be on your best behaviour, a profanity laden post that directly attacks a member of the forum is a clear breach of the Forum Guidelines. Considering the circumstances that would be a banning offence. However, I will leave it to Admin/Napoleon to make the final determination on this. I wash my hands of it. As for an apology - well, perhaps one more post would do it . . .

DE

After that episode, Chris had not posted again until starting this present thread. He has not learned any manners in the meantime and his post:
Get bent Terminator, seriously, go jump off a cliff or something mate...

I'm as much a part of the dev team as anyone. is once again a violation of the Forum Guidelines. Because I didn't follow through last time it appears Chris feels he can say things like this with impunity. Well, while I am administrator here, he cannot. Grimreaper and Grimreaper2 are now banned. If Admin wishes to restore his status, he can chose to do so . . . and find a new forum administrator. While I am here, I expect good behaviour from everyone, no exceptions. I regret the length of this post, but this is not like banning your average troublemaker - it is banning one of the 1st Page originators and supposedly someone who is contributing to the next version of 1st Page. I wanted people to know the history and the context for my actions.

Thank you, all, for your attention.

DE
Volunteer Forum Administrator

[KingSky]

I imagine that any beta testers are probably fans of the program, and likely would visit this forum quite often.

In that light, if you are a beta tester, please post here whether you have seen any actual product.

I think this will be a good way to tell if there is actually a product out there or if this is just more hype. If we don't see any posts here soon, it's probably just hype (which I think it is anyway).

[Terminator1138]

Well stated DE....:) Thank you for the clarification.

KingSky....nicely put.. :)

[Admin]

I would just like to update everyone that I did send an early beta test copy to Chris. He has not been working on First Page, however he has gratefully decided to give us the WYSIWYG inspection wrapper for free. This is very much appreciated! At the present moment we're still going over the wrapper, it's huge and I am having a huge problem trying to integrate it into the First Page software. It could be a feature we may end up deciding to release in v4, 2007? (perhaps)

Chris is no longer a direct competitor to us. He has moved on to other bigger and better things and has decided to give us, for no charge, intellectual code that will benefit First Page users. I wish him luck and prosperity and would also like to thank his coder, Tim, his co/associate programmer.

It is true that First Page 2006 is nearly complete. Everything is virtually done, we are just cleaning it up and a beta release may be released in the coming weeks.

I would like to thank everyone who is still supporting this software, I hope the next version will not disappoint. Furthermore I would also like to extend my thanks to the moderators and adminstrators who have been doing a great job.

[Terminator1138]

I would just like to update everyone that I did send an early beta test copy to Chris. He has not been working on First Page, however he has gratefully decided to give us the WYSIWYG inspection wrapper for free. This is very much appreciated! At the present moment we're still going over the wrapper, it's huge and I am having a huge problem trying to integrate it into the First Page software. It could be a feature we may end up deciding to release in v4, 2007? (perhaps)

Chris is no longer a direct competitor to us. He has moved on to other bigger and better things and has decided to give us, for no charge, intellectual code that will benefit First Page users. I wish him luck and prosperity and would also like to thank his coder, Tim, his co/associate programmer.

It is true that First Page 2006 is nearly complete. Everything is virtually done, we are just cleaning it up and a beta release may be released in the coming weeks.

I would like to thank everyone who is still supporting this software, I hope the next version will not disappoint. Furthermore I would also like to extend my thanks to the moderators and adminstrators who have been doing a great job.

Thanks for the clarification Admin. IMO, he should have stated that he was the beta tester and not hinted someone else. We all look forward to beta testing and I'm sure you will have a great list to choose from. If he has moved on, it might be good for him to mention that on his own forum also or give any of his updates. I'm sure many here like to hear your comments on development as you once did before. That being said, thank you again for the update. It helps.:)

[DanThMan]

:omg:
This subject must be the endless loop I've been hearing so much about ;)
or maybe that's the other one. Maybe you've heard there's a virus in .....
Mods, I admire your patience and mature behaviour! Hats off....
Nice jump Term, but I'm pretty sure it's a fake ;)

[Terminator1138]

Nice jump Term, but I'm pretty sure it's a fake
The picture is real actually, I hijacked it from webshots :(
:) but its not me in the photo hehe..

[DanThMan]

That's exactly what I thought :)

[Terminator1138]

I just thought it was a funny gesture since i was asked to :) its all good now.

[MikeyF]

I only have one question since the matter of Chris being honest is settled. Why didn't any of the moderators take the time to e-mail the Admin and see if he was telling the truth.

Everyone who has used this product for a while knows the history between the developers.

Personally I don't blame Chris for lambasting Terminator1138. Terminator1138 post was written as a personal insult to Chris.

Hopefully you will make the right decision and terminate the ban on him DCElliott. Also you guys need to lighten up if the Admin has healed his rift with Chris everyone on the forum should get over it.

[Admin]

Some screenshots. :)

* Dual Preview; shows Mozilla + IE engine working together. This means when you preview your web pages you can select the preview engine as either: IE, IE+Mozilla (dual preview) or just Mozilla. You can swap the view from Horizonal to Vertical, swap the panes. Its a great feature for webmasters who are trying to design standards based websites that need to see how their webpages look in both web browsers at once.

* Added Design view; This feature uses the MS Frontpage engine; its mainly for designing your initial site, e.g. visually design, insert/edit table structures, format text.

* IDE is where all the power lies. The Anti-Instrusive Real-Time Rendering Engine is one of the best features in this new release. You can select code and the preview will update the selection in real-time. For example, when you add, select code, edit text, change a font color/face, you will see these updates in REAL-TIME.

* Tag insight and inspector has a smart history feature that remembers all the colors, URLs and attributes you commonly use. This is one step beyond what all html editors currently offer.

I am very excited about the new version and I hope you will too. There is a lot of little features which will make this release; the best yet.

[Terminator1138]

Well he was not being honest,, that is the point and I merely stated to him that IMO, I don't trust him, I do not take offense to anyone that says Term I don't trust you...plain and simple to me. However, as stated in DE's post, he has been warned for comments before. He was given more than enough 'special treatment'. The fact also is, Admin was notified.. Grim was notified and this is only now being answered by my request to Admin. DE has notifed him also and as a result has posted information.

Yes Grim and Admin are now friends again. But does that give him the right to blast off also? My formal apologies and I did ask DE about my post and if I was to blame also. Grim as stated in posts before everyone is entitled to an opinion. A vote of mistrust does not mean personal insult does it? If more members think so, I aplogize. But DE's linked posts give proof of the mistrust I mentioned is all.

[Terminator1138]

Some screenshots. :)
Nice!!!! thank you for posting those...I'm excited withyou :) Sounds like you have some real useful features. Speaking from one that can not wait to give it a whirl, I think you have possible done a great job...I say possible, just cuz I have not tested it yet

BTW, If I offended Grim....I'm sorry Admin.

[DCElliott]

Personally I don't blame Chris for lambasting Terminator1138. Terminator1138 post was written as a personal insult to Chris.

Hopefully you will make the right decision and terminate the ban on him DCElliott. Also you guys need to lighten up if the Admin has healed his rift with Chris everyone on the forum should get over it.

MikeyF, I appreciate the well-meaning nature of your post. However, with only 16 posts here, I suspect you have not assimilated the long, long history as it was evolving. Terminator1138 and I and other moderators have had concerns about Chris's posts in the past and he has shown disrespect and direct personal attacks on members. Stating that you don't trust what someone is saying is not the same as calling them a liar. Terminator1138 had sufficient grounds to make the observation that he made and as a moderator had a responsibility to post a warning to other members if he felt there was a chance that they would be drawn into a controversial thread. The fact that Chris responded as he did simply confirmed his lack of respect for this board and its code of conduct. He has his own board with its 193 members where he may act as he pleases.

The ban stays unless lifted by Admin/Napoleon. Please note, however, that Admin must be aware of my action in banning Chris and has chosen not to counter it. In fact, he posted this afterwards:
Furthermore I would also like to extend my thanks to the moderators and adminstrators who have been doing a great job.

From the other mods and myself, Admin, thanks for the vote of confidence. It is not an easy job.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/barraca/village8mf.gif

And MikeyF, or others, if you feel we have made a bad decision, by all means comment on it. You keep us on our toes.

DE

[MikeyF]

DCElliott

Just because I don't post often doesn't mean I don't check the board frequently and lurk. I have been using 1st page since approximatily 2000.

How can you ban someone for making inappropriate comments when you are making insensitive comments yourself.

He has his own board with its 193 members where he may act as he pleases.

I don't know Chris and I don't approve of what he did in the past but there is no way that he should have received the treatment that the moderators dealt to him on the forum today.

The only person that should have come down of him should have been the Admin. If Chris did anything wrong todayi it was that he stole Napoleon's thunder...

[MikeyF]

Admin

Thanks for the pics. The new editor looks great.
I am looking forward to using it!

[Terminator1138]

Well I will state, most of Grims offensive posts was deleted soon after they were made MikeyF. So you do not know the whole story I'm afraid, You are just in pointing out my mistakes. I have PMed admin about my post since you have commented on it. The fact also Grim had other choices like 'report bad post feature and others'

My decision for the record was to put an end to posting flames against evrsoft FP. I stated this in my first post and stand by it. I'm glad Admin posted confiming my suspicions. Again thats to Admin for the updates. MikeyF if I offended you by posting the mistrust i see in Grim, Im sorry to you.

[Redhawk]

Thanks to Admin for the pics. I also look forward to the release of FP2006 - it looks great.

In addition, I have only visited this forum a half dozen times in the past few years. I was aware that there is a long history among Admin, the moderators, and others. And I thank DC for the explanation. I have seen some of the inflammatory posts in the past, which I overlooked because I didn't know the situation.

I am here because I love FrontPage and I trust those running these forums to do what they consider to be in the best interests of this product and it's users. That being said, is it premature to discuss how much this product might cost?

[Terminator1138]

Thank you Redhawk.....now for the discussion of the cost. I would be awesome to be free, but I would be willing to buy a couple of licenses if needed. Say no more that 50 for a resonanable product maybe more but would have to see a beta or demo first.

[Votekick]

Oh great, now I want a better look! :hahaha:

[Daybreak_0]

The standard Wooohooo is added with a couple of extra o's

Regards to all

Day

[SundayNiagara]

Maybe we'll all have a nice Christmas present.
Mark

[Spock]

Dang! I should have stayed away!!! :verymad: Now my anticipation has started up all over again! http://developers.evrsoft.com/forum/images/smilies/M1R3TPE2.GIF

As for the controversy, all non-Mods/Admins should remember the two primary rules of any forum:

1. Moderatotors are always right.

2. When in doubt, refer to rule #1.

:cool:

[Terminator1138]

Well we are not always right :) but we try :) Thanks Spock

[jd_nelson]

I am excited about the possiblitly of a first page being released! I have been a semi user since around 2000. Although not an avid developer, I understand the basics and like the text editors over teh wysiwygs. I am actually in an XML class being put on at a local community college. The instructor seem very competent, and was familiar with 1st Page 2000. I think we would actually be using it in class, but the dreaded want to be virus keeps it from getting installed. We are currently using HomeSite as an editor in class, but the instructor did seem to show some hope even for this program. According to our conversation, she followed it for quite a while and finally gave up. For the programs sake, I would love to see it be released and distributed among more Universities. The number of ppl exposed to the program in this type of environment could be tremendous. Look how MS has taken a solid grip on the business world by letting Colleges and their students use a program in class. These are the future buyers....

Still Following,

JD Nelson

[generalhavok]

I've finally registered!
I know...that doesn't necessarily thrill any of you. It thrills me, however. I've been using 1st Page since 1999 and have referred hundreds of users since. I've also read about half of the threads on this forum, so I'm no newbie.Why am I thrilled?

Because I decided long ago to NOT register until I was sure there was a new version coming out.

With Admin's new pics I feel confident that my years of waiting will soon come to an end. It's September 2005...even if I have to wait another 6 - 12 months, I don't mind. I've scoured the web for YEARS to find a better editor than 1st Page and the closest I've found is Notepad. In my opinion, most of the others are so frustrating that I won't use them. I'm a full-time freelance web designer, so I have a vested interest in finding a great editor. I'm convinced that FP2006 will be the app I've been waiting for...it pretty much has to be, since it's going to be an improvement over FP2000. If the last 5 years hasn't produced a better editor, the next one or two aren't likely either.

[Terminator1138]

deleted... rethought what I was thinking :)

[PsychoticDude85]

SEXY! SEXY! SEXEH!!! I might even go so far as to add HAWT!

haha, looks very nice :D I can't wait for the final version :)

While you be able to for example generate the tags for specific dtds in the new page instead of making a template of it? If there is a way to do this I missed it in the current :P

Can't wait for the release, way to go Admin!

[Terminator1138]

Hmm I have to wonder, did I miss something?

[DanThMan]

Maybe this..
You will find out very soon, the public beta should be ready any day now. :)
in a thread near by you ;)

:cheers:

[bingo2]

This is wonderful... thinking back of the statements over the last 4 years which I anonymously followed, we will be able to salute Firstpage 2009 in the very near near future ;-)

[mojo_lo]

i'm here because i'm lookin for a better editor. i hope i'm wrong, but those preview pics look a little disheartening. all i'm seeing are antiquated table tags and font markup, etc. i really hope there is going to be powerful CSS and PHP functionality built in, and a plugin architecture on top of that. otherwise, this one may not be worth the wait.

[Terminator1138]

Have you checkd out the other list from members for editors out ther? Are you looking for a free solutoin? Let me see if I can find the thread.

update: found em
This thread called HTML showdown (http://developers.evrsoft.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2623&highlight=html+editors)

[mojo_lo]

thanks for the quick reply. i think i've already tried most of the free editors out there, and a lot of free trials also. with the enthusiasm that the people on this forum have for 1st Page, i just thought that it might have all the features a lot of people are crying out for.

Seems there are a lot of HTML/CSS/PHP apps out there now, but all need more time to mature.

i guess what would really be the killer app would be the rock solid stability and CSS features of TopStyle combined with some of the newer CSS and PHP features of the TSW WebCoder 2005 beta. Neither are/will be free, but an app that could combine the best of both would surely be worth the $.

[Terminator1138]

Have you heard of HTML gate and php Designer? Those are found on mpsoftware.dk

[mojo_lo]

yep, tried those out too. they're good. i guess one app can't have it all though so it looks like seperate tools is the way to go (at least for now...still hopin' that TopStyle 4 will be da bomb!)

thanks!

[Terminator1138]

I like stylemaster as my css editor...however, IMO, if you want all those features, you have to go with Dreamweaver or Golive etc.

sounds like you have don't some good research mojo_lo.....if you do find something good, do please let us know or even at least me :)

[rutroh]

Just wanted to say I have been awaiting, like everyone else for the next update\new version of fpage but like a lot of other ppl, i hope you dont mind if we dont get to excited about the new main index page of this site as we have been waiting a long time. and well it seems to be another tease for a programme that a lot of us have waited a few years for.
I suppose my point would be are we going to have to wait another few years or are we just being led up the garden path??