Editing Delay

[Don Stone]

I have been using 1st Page 2000 for quite some time and love it. Today, I found that 2006 is available and therefore I downloaded and installed it.

After a bit of looking around at it, I think I will love it also. BUT, I found a problem that is not acceptable and believe that it is because I have missed something somewhere. When I either delete a few characters or type a few characters, there is a very noticable delay in showing the result on the screen (1-2 seconds per character). I did not have this problem with 2000.

What is wrong? Where have I missed something? :smack:

Thanks for the help
Don

[davews]

I have noticed the same, but it seems intermittent. Seems sometimes when I have the delay (which as you say makes it virtually impossible to type anything) I switch to preview and back to edit and the delay seems to have gone. Using 98SE by the way.
Dave

[Don Stone]

Dave--
Thanks for the confirmation that there is a very serious problem that needs to be resolved. Hopefully there is some setting in my Windows XP or 1st Page 2006 that will fix it! Meanwhile, I will return to 2000 and carry on.....

[Admin]

Click on Splitscreen options (One button under where you can activate splitscreen preview), select a higher delay update.

E.g. if your on 1 second, select 2 or 3 second delay. Give that a try.

Also can you please paste your computer specs.

Thanks

[Don Stone]

Greetings--
I'm sorry but I did not find anything about Splitscreen options near the "Toggle Visual Source Engine (split-screen)" option on the View menu. Neither could I find anything in the Guide or help. Please give further help. BTW, I do not even want to use the split screen feature.

My specs are in the attached file.

Thank you very much for help on a very troubling problem.

[newguy]

I think the problem of finding the Splitscreen Options button is that it is almost hidden at the bottom of the menu. It is under Splitscreen Preview (on/off toggle) but is only accessable when Splitscreen is selected. Even then it is almost undetectable unless you look very hard. I did find it, look at the very very bottom, and selected it. There is a delay option for changes, the lowest being .6 of a second then 1,2, seconds. I find any delay annoying as I forget how many deletes I've pushed and end up getting more deleted than I wanted. The .6 works quite well.

[Don Stone]

Thanks for the reply. I did as you said and finally found the delay options. My problem is that I want a 0 delay. I am not new to this web design business and therefore, for the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone at anytime would want any delay. Even with the delay set to 0.6, it is not acceptable for me. Is there any method to get rid of it completely? This delay was not in the 2000 version and I believe that it should not be in the 2006. (My soapbox for the day)

Thanks for any additional help.

[musicman2059]

I have the split screen preview completely off and I kinda get a delay here, too. Currently running on a 1.7 GHz Pentium M with 512MB RAM. (WinXP Home SP2)

[Ambishii]

Thanks for the reply. I did as you said and finally found the delay options. My problem is that I want a 0 delay. I am not new to this web design business and therefore, for the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone at anytime would want any delay. Even with the delay set to 0.6, it is not acceptable for me. Is there any method to get rid of it completely? This delay was not in the 2000 version and I believe that it should not be in the 2006. (My soapbox for the day)

Thanks for any additional help.

I think you have misunderstood something, or you just don't get it. The delay there doesn't mean the delay of the characters coming to the screen but the delay of the refreshing of the splitscreen preview. If the preview would be updating every microsecond, even the newest and best computer box would cough and jam completely.

The delay for your characters update to the source is because the system updates the preview in the splitscreen every 0.6 seconds, which of course takes CPU power to do, loading a file from the harddisk, and you don't even see it.

I actually coded a similiar, but poorer program once with a splitscreen preview with 0 delay. Overloop error, jam and reboot. That's why there is a delay.

But there should be an option for 100 years delay, so there wouldn't be any delay in the characters popping to the screen.

I, myself have the same problem, too. It's impossible to type anything into 2006, I tried every delay. And typing elsewhere is perfect, so something's wrong with the program.

Awkwardly enough, browsing through source with key buttons is perfectly synced, has no delay at all.


Again, since I haven't coded 1st Page 2k6 and haven't been in any part of it development, I don't know for sure, this is just the way it probably, perhaps, most possibly is. Let the admin enlighten us...

[Don Stone]

It seems that there a number of folks that are dismayed with the delay; I'm not the only one. Yes, maybe I do not understand where the delay actually occurs but I see it in the source. I have the splitscreen turned of and still get delay most of the time. There are times when I can type 10 characters and I see them appear almost instantly. Other times it can take a couple of seconds for each character to appear.

This delay, for whatever reason, was not in version 2000 and I would like to know why someone thought that it needed to be put into 2006. Yes, it would be great for the administration folks to explain it to us and tell us how to get rid of it. I really like some of the new features of 2006 but I'm afraid that I am going to have to return to 2000 for my work. It's just too frustrating to deal with the delay!

[Ambishii]

It seems that there a number of folks that are dismayed with the delay; I'm not the only one. Yes, maybe I do not understand where the delay actually occurs but I see it in the source. I have the splitscreen turned of and still get delay most of the time. There are times when I can type 10 characters and I see them appear almost instantly. Other times it can take a couple of seconds for each character to appear.

It can be that the splitscreen is only hidden from you, but 1st Page still updates it every 0.6 second or whatever delay you set.

The 3 second delay SHOULD be the best, since higher the delay in the options menu, the lower the delay in the text appearing in the source. But I at least don't see any difference between those two.

Oddly enough, I installed 1st Page 2006 3 to my other computer wich is significantly older than the one I had the delay with, and there was no delay at all!

Don, if you have access to another computer, you should try if it has any delays. I'm not saying that if you find a computer without any delays you should do your business there where ever might that computer be, and I'm not saying that this delay problem in your computer should not be solved, I'm just curious.


This delay, for whatever reason, was not in version 2000 and I would like to know why someone thought that it needed to be put into 2006. Yes, it would be great for the administration folks to explain it to us and tell us how to get rid of it. I really like some of the new features of 2006 but I'm afraid that I am going to have to return to 2000 for my work. It's just too frustrating to deal with the delay!

Well, you must note that 2000 is a much lighter program than 2006. I'm not telling you that your computer is old or slow, mine's neither.

2000 is still a wonderful program. It jams too often though, but it is great.

Offtopic: I used the trial of the 2006 earlier and I found a place where you could choose your code highlights from different presets, or modify the current one. Now I can only find the modifying dialog. Has this preset thing been took off or what?

[Chris_TC]

I downloaded the 2006 version of 1st page yesterday and I have also noticed a frequent delay when typing something.
When the delay is starting to appear and I stop typing to allow the letters to catch up with me, it can take several seconds(!) until everything I typed appears on screen. During that time, my CPU usage goes up to 100% according to the task manager.

I have turned off the realtime preview using the menu but it doesn't make any difference whatsoever. I don't see how 1st page could max out my CPU. I like the program but this insane delay makes it absolutely impossible to work with.

Here are my system specs if that helps the developers:
Athlon XP 3000+
2.5 GB RAM
Windows XP Pro, Service Pack 2

[Chris_TC]

I have found out that the delay seems to occur whenever I type inside of tags. I recorded a short video to showcase the problem.

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/1747/delay1tq.jpg

Edit: The video link doesn't seem to work right now but basically, as soon as I start to type within the <b> tags, CPU usage goes up to 100% and the delay starts to appear.

[Chris_TC]

And yet another finding: The delay only occurs as long as I type within a start and an end tag and I'm typing with the beam directly next to the end tag.

Let me explain:
I type in <p>. The program automatically adds </p> and puts my cursor between the <p> and the </p>

If I type something now, the delay is crazy. Now let's say, I've typed this:
<p>This is a short test.</p>

If I keep typing within the tags, the delay will remain. If, however, I type something in between my text there's no delay whatsover. If, say, I wanted to add in the following:
<p>This is a really, really short test.</p>
there's no delay. If I then put the cursor back to where I left off after "test." and keep typing from there, the delay is back with full strength.

Also, if I manually delete the added </p> tag and just start typing after the <p> (like back in the old days when there was no auto insertion of end tags) there's also no delay.

So to cut things short: if you turn off the tag auto completion you're a good step towards delay-free typing.
If you need to edit something that's already sitting within a start and an end tag, you should make sure not to put your cursor directly next to the end tag. If there's at least one letter (it can even be just a space!) between your cursor position and the end tag, you're fine.

This is a very weird and unconvenient work-around but it helps for now.

[Flying Dutchman]

I think you've done some pretty good research here!

I hope others can reproduce this behaviour as well, for I noticed in this forum that most of the bugs are not a common pain in the *.

I'll try to reproduce it and present my results!

Martin

10 minutes later....

Did the test!

The good thing is, I can exactly reproduce the effects you described!

[ANDREW_H]

I think you've done some pretty good research here!

I hope others can reproduce this behaviour as well, for I noticed in this forum that most of the bugs are not a common pain in the *.

I'll try to reproduce it and present my results!

Martin

10 minutes later....

Did the test!

The good thing is, I can exactly reproduce the effects you described!
Very difficult to pin down. I'm using a Dell Optiplex GX280 running Windows XP Professional 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600. My processor is a Pentium 4 3.7 GHz, I have 1GB RAM, an 80GB Hard Drive, My Display is running off an Intel 82915/GV/910GL Express Chipset Family and I have a 2.39 GB Swap File. I have not noticed any slow response to my typing inside or outside of tags. Weird!

[lascasas]

I have the same issue exactly as Chris_TC described. The delay occurs when typing next to a tag. It goes away if I turn off tag autocompletion.

I have Windows XP Pro, Service pack 2, P4, 1.6 GHZ, 512 ram

[Flying Dutchman]

<quote>
It goes away if I turn off tag autocompletion.
</quote>

That's an important observation! :)

[bg1]

I followed the instructions below and it fixed it perfectly. I had tried turning off other options and got no improvement. It is easy to miss the "Splitscreen options" (see below).

"Click on Splitscreen options (One button under where you can activate splitscreen preview), select a higher delay update.

E.g. if your on 1 second, select 2 or 3 second delay. Give that a try."

Split screen option: Look at the narrow bar to the far left of the editing window. It has a RED X at the top of the bar.

The small icon near the bottom toggles the split screen or "Visual source engine." However, the split screen option button does not appear until you toggle on the "Visual source engine (split screen). Toggle this on. Click the button below that for option, select "3 second delay", then toggle the split screen off--and everything works great.

[Chris_TC]

The small icon near the bottom toggles the split screen or "Visual source engine." However, the split screen option button does not appear until you toggle on the "Visual source engine (split screen). Toggle this on. Click the button below that for option, select "3 second delay", then toggle the split screen off--and everything works great.

No, it doesn't. I have turned the split screen completely off and it doesn't work. Your delays have probably been CPU speed related.

[Terminator1138]

I think many of the speed delays relate to the fact that they are watching the text form in the visual part in the preview pane so to speak and thus is only a preview, it has to render the changes. It shows up fast on my computer but I do see a lag in there.

[ANDREW_H]

I've just recently begun seeing the nag screen about registering the software to receive an unlock key. It displays on Program Start and Close and it is very annoying. I've been to the site and the benefits of registering are:-

• Nag Screen Removal / Unlock All Features
• Activate to Fully Functional Software
• 24/7 Priority Email Support
• Free LifeTime Product Upgrades

However... and this may be related to anyone who is experiencing typing delays and crashes. Have you read the terms and conditions during program installation? I'm willing to bet that hardly anyone did. These terms and conditions contain a section regarding the benefits of registering the program as well, but it has one additional benefit... i.e. "Quicker response and lower memory usage".

Take from that what you will... I've already removed the program from my system.

[Chris_TC]

I think many of the speed delays relate to the fact that they are watching the text form in the visual part in the preview pane so to speak and thus is only a preview, it has to render the changes. It shows up fast on my computer but I do see a lag in there.


No, we're not talking about the preview pane. We're talking about the actual editing window. It's like bringing up Notepad, typing and watching the text catching up with what you typed.

In fact, since the delays only happen when typing inside of tags, I can set the splitscreen preview to 0.6 seconds even on huuuuge pages and type without any delay in the editing window as long as I stay outside of tags. It's obvious that the preview window does not update in realtime, nobody expects that.

[Trezore]

Typing in the main Source window.
I tested and found the same results regarding the lag. I found I should not type in the following areas:

1. Before an open tag with slash "</".
If you place a space " </" or any character before the "</" bracket (like so... "#<"), you should be fine as mentioned in a previous post.

2. After the main declaration of a tag; for example: "<font ", anything typed after the blank space after the word font becomes effected by lag. So if you like... type everything inside the tag before typing the tag name at the beginning and you will have no lag... hmmmm lol.. I don't think people will do that.

When typing in those instances, there is sever lag and 100% CPU spike.


When the cursor -> " | " <- is located directly to the left of the tag "</" like so; "|</"), there will be a lag effect.

If there is a space, like so; "| </", there will be no lag effect

Tag Auto Completion is disabled and I still have the lag.

Dual Edit (Popup Source Window): Using this feature,there is no lag!
Using the sidebar menu, it is the third from the bottom. When you close the Dual Edit window, any change made in it will be updated instantly to the main source window.

I wish to clarify that this has nothing to do with the split screen editing and or delay settings! There was no difference with any changes made to the hidden split screen and its related delay feature.

[WolvenSpectre]

I have design view off,split screen off, the Realtime Preview Renderer set to 3 second delay. I have a single hand coded web page of simple text and links that doesn't fill the full IE Preview pane in full screen. with all my background apps and processes turned off I see a constant text display other people describe here. I get THE EXACT SAME DELAY wile testing it while listening a podcast, downlading 4 podcasts using a download manager that uses multiple sesions per file, downloading and seeding BitTorrent using Azureus, Symantec (BLOAT) Antivirus, 4 antispyware programs, and my communications software.

My system is:

Windows 2000 SP4, .Net 1.1 and 2.0
AMD Athalon Thunderbird 750
ASUS A7V Motherboard
512 MB PC100
HDD 30GB, 9.5GB, 6GB/3GB (I switch between)
16 bit Creative Ensoniq Sound Card
Nvidia GeForce Ti4200 or ATI Radeon 7500 (I switch between those too)
10/100 BaseT Ethernet card used as a port for a ADSL 1.5Mb/s / 384Kb/s Westell Modem
IBM E74b Monitor in SVGA reselution (1024x786)
LG CD Burner
5 USB Ports

Hopefully that is enough information for you to figure out the problem because I really want this to work, right now I have to go back to 2000 (begrudingly) until this is fixed.

[Galactic]

...Hopefully that is enough information for you to figure out the problem because I really want this to work, right now I have to go back to 2000 (begrudingly) until this is fixed.

Did you try turning off the auto complete tag option?

Any other problems besides this one thing that you (and the others) have had with FP final?

Do you have both FP2006 and FP2000 installed?

If you have both installed, open and close FP2006 final. Now open task manager. Do you have one or more 1st Page processes running. (Click on the process tab to see, if you click on name, 1st Page processes will come to the top of the window.) (It is not worth the time to reload FP2006 just to check this. It might be worth the time to download the loader again and try installing FP2006 from scratch again. If anyone is finding that the process will not close, even though FP2006 seems to, there is something that seems to correct that. Multiple processes running could be something that could impact editing speed and do a lot more than that.)

Admin will probably have a look at the slow editing bug when "he comes back from vacation". He may well have a day job and had to spend some time earning a living. He jumped right on the Splash Screen Won't Close bug when FP PR2 came out. Within 2 days he seems to have fixed that and put out the FP2006 final. I am not sure he has posted since January 12.

Admin, should you happen to read this: I have begun to think that much of the problems reported with FP2006 final can be corrected with a change in the program's loader. I am not sure that a stealth change in the loader has not been slipped in, because it seems to me that bug reports / complaints are a lot less prevalent recently.

[Flying Dutchman]

Did you try turning off the auto complete tag option?

Any other problems besides this one thing that you (and the others) have had with FP final?

Do you have both FP2006 and FP2000 installed?

If you have both installed, open and close FP26006 final. Now open task manager. Do you have one or more 1st Page processes running. (Click on the process tab to see, if you click on name, 1st Page processes will come to the top of the window.) (It is not worth the time to reload FP2006 just to check this. It might be worth the time to download the loader again and try installing FP2006 from scratch again. If anyone is finding that the process will not close, even though FP2006 seems to, there is something that seems to correct that. Multiple processes running could be something that could impact editing speed and do a lot more than that.)

Admin will probably have a look at the slow editing bug when "he comes back from vacation". He may well have a day job and had to spend some time earning a living. He jumped right on the Splash Screen Won't Close bug when FP PR2 came out. Within 2 days he seems to have fixed that and put out the FP2006 final. I am not sure he has posted since January 12.

Admin, should you happen to read this: I have begun to think that much of the problems reported with FP1006 final can be corrected with a change in the program's loader. I am not sure that a stealth change in the loader has not been slipped in, because it seems to me that bug reports / complaints are a lot less prevalent recently.

FP26006? : what time this revision is expected :smack:
FP1006?: missed that revision totally; possibly only released in Mesopatamia :smack:

[Galactic]

FP26006? : what time this revision is expected :smack:
FP1006?: missed that revision totally; possibly only released in Mesopatamia :smack:

The loader installs the program. It contains the release and it also controls the installation. It could change the default selections in the options menu. It could do all of that and still be installing the same version of the program. If the loader had changed, would there have been announcement about it? If the observation is correct that the problems with FP final are on the decline, something has caused the change. One thing that could have done it would would be a loader change. I had that on my mind and it just slipped into my previous post.

How many early adapters who have been following the forums here closely for a couple of months were aware that there was a release of FP that occurred on January 10? I expect all of them. How many downloaded it and tried it out? Again, I expect all of them. How many were aware of another release on January 12? From my reading of the announcement thread, I don't know that any of them were? What release are new users of FP getting? The latest that was put there on CNET's Download.com before they downloaded it. Is that the same loader that was put there on January 12? It is the same file name as the loader that was there around January 18 when I got my download. Also the file is the same size, to the nearest K. I am not completely convinced that the file is the same, although it probably is.

Oh, now I see what you are telling me, I got the dates wrong, twice. I appreciate the heads up. I will go and fix them now. Cheers.

[WolvenSpectre]

I didn't have both versions installed at the same time, and I believe that I had autocomp turned off, but scince I have uninstalled 06 and reinstalled 00 I'll have to uninstall/reinstall to try. I can report that at first 2000 was a little laggy on editing, but a reboot fixed that.

I'll let you guys/gals/spammers/masqurading artificail intellegences know how it went.

#############################################################
SUCCESS!!!!!! (For now)

Yess I did have it shut off before, but I also remember having problems because of the bug for diasbling the template manager in any way, so that could have ben messing up my install.

I reinstalled and slaped 4 concept webpages and then started editing, the bug was back. I shut off autocomplete and tried it out. Only a minor delay happens when I enter alot of keystrokes (faster than I can type, I basicly drummed my poor keyboard).

Now I can use the latest and greatest (and bugiest :P ) version for my coding!

Thanks Guys,

Much appreciated!

WolvenSpectre

[WolvenSpectre]

FP26006? : what time this revision is expected :smack:
FP1006?: missed that revision totally; possibly only released in Mesopatamia :smack:

Ah yes, 1006, the Iraqi version made for Hamurabi, I belive there was a slow editing problem when that one first came out too, something about the chisels kept skipping off the tablet interface making carving take twice as long.

[kego]

I don't know if this will help or not, but I guess it is worth mentioning. I installed FP2006 on my computer for a few weeks and it worked fine. I just bought a new 24" widescreen LCD monitor form Dell and hooked it up a few weeks ago. Every since then, I have this typing delay that everyone is talking about. Not only that, but my monitor flashes when each delayed keystroke finally does appear. I went in and lowered my monitor color to 16 bit and things started speeding up!

I guess that this could all still be related to the processing power of your computer. A higher resolution/color could probably need more processing power for displaying (I really don't know). I have a newer Nvidia graphics card so I think it should be able to handle this all fine.

I will keep an eye on this topic till someone figures out what is going on. Until then, I will have to unistall FP2006 and go back to using Textpad.

[johnb]

I followed the instructions below and it fixed it perfectly. I had tried turning off other options and got no improvement. It is easy to miss the "Splitscreen options" (see below).

"Click on Splitscreen options (One button under where you can activate splitscreen preview), select a higher delay update.

E.g. if your on 1 second, select 2 or 3 second delay. Give that a try."

Split screen option: Look at the narrow bar to the far left of the editing window. It has a RED X at the top of the bar.

The small icon near the bottom toggles the split screen or "Visual source engine." However, the split screen option button does not appear until you toggle on the "Visual source engine (split screen). Toggle this on. Click the button below that for option, select "3 second delay", then toggle the split screen off--and everything works great.

Tried all this, to no avail. Same really cr*ppy delay. My machine is rather old, it is true, but it runs XP SP2 with 200M ram OK, so I am surprised to get this problem with modern software, as FP2000 was great. All I need to do now is find a copy of FP2000, install it, and consign this version where it belongs, in the good old Recycle Bin.

[Terminator1138]

xp will run okay on 128mb ram as I have used it in 2001 when xp came out however this "bug" seems to be not related to a system but in the program itself in the real time preview engine. Almost a year later this software has not be updated which is a same to fix these common bugs. thanks johnb for checking your system and trying all the options. It will help the developer someday I hope.

What I find the most interesting is on download.com, users have mostly ranked this software as great but when it comes to the forum, users rank it below standards.....interesting, perhaps more ppl should review the software and point them here...

Thanks.

[fivesixty]

Also on another thread, but just seen this more relevant thread-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So it's not just me then. A lot of peole are complaining about slow typing. Previous commenst are correct - type with a space after the cursor and all is OK. Type where you almost always would like to - immediately before the end tag and it really is way to slow. This is actually worse when typing within tags as there often isn't a gap before the tag and I am forever deleting too many letters and having to retype them as I hit delete much more quickly than they leave the screen.

Can someone from Evrsoft please post a reply about this to let us know what is being dome about it. I purchased this version and was happier with 2000 in many ways. While you're at it 3.0 crashes on me (losing my work) at least twice every time I use it - don't know why - and what happened to Livespell?

[Terminator1138]

here is their support contact page
http://www.evrsoft.com/contact.shtml

[BD]

Yes, the day this is fixed (or as soon as I know it's fixed anyway!) is the day I'll buy the program. I love it otherwise. Used FP2000 for ages and that works fine. I love the improvements in 2006 but that typing delay makes it unuseable for me.

BD

[mkrowni]

I've been using 1st Page since the mid 90's and have sworn by it since...until now...I have been watching this forum and tried to get answers and, yes, I have used the 'work arounds' but I see no movement to fix the core issue...YOU CAN'T TYPE WITH AN END TAG!!!"

Sorry...I didn't mean to yell...but... it seems to me that if Evrsoft really cared about their clients they would at least respond to these posts. I have NEVER seen such disregard. Do they want our business? I'll not pay for a product with such faults. This should be easy to fix! If any of you 'coders' out there have the fix, give it to them, or have you. As for the license post, why would they put a bug in as a selling point? Horse Hockey! This is just a bug that they should have fixed it ages ago...like, uhm...before release? I can't believe this was unnoticed during testing...

I'll be removing any links I have to this product and I'll be looking for a better option...maybe 1st page 2000? Always worked before.

I await any flaming with great anticipation!

Thank you very much,
Malenka
Who sometimes lets her mouth get ahead of her head

[Terminator1138]

mkrowni, yes your are right, why, but since you have been using the software you must have realized also admins habits and update history or lack there of.

Please do not start a flame as you insisted members do in your post.

As for your frustration, believe me I know, I once tried it out not once but twice. Never will go back and never will try it again, in fact I saved and bought DW a while back.

[mkrowni]

Terminator1138,

Thanks, but I don't think I 'insisted ' that members flame me, I don't even expect it, it was more of a comment on the civility here relative to other forums I've seen. Guess I should have clarified that a bit.

I have never received a response from support on any query, including those involving selling this thing. I stuck in there merely because it was a great program for so long and should be now, but a tiny bug like this makes it really annoying and unsaleable.

Anyway, Thanks,
Malenka
who gets in trouble on tequila...

[Terminator1138]

Some might take it the other way and take a change to flame anything...thanks for clarification. No one should flame you for your thoughts on it. :)...

I agree, it would be a decent program if only things were taken care of and fixed.