[Redcap]

Righty-ho, then. Here's where we're at with this project:

• Removed Hitbox.com tracker scripting and resulting out-of-site-character banner image. This will be replaced with an alternate service before long.
• Changed back from XHTML 1 to HTML 4.01. Masthead continues to function, layout remains the same under IE, Moz/Nav, and Opera. Moz/Nav & Opera still have problems resolving the #text area in the lighter shade of green.
• Extensively double checked the HTML source. Sent it through the W3C validator about ten times, removing invalid elements each time. There are still a few problems, but once I've figured out why the damn thing won't validate, most of the problems here should be fixed.
• Sent the external CSS through the W3C validator. As expected, there were problems, mainly with the non-standard masthead marquee-like scrolling under IE and Mozilla. This is never going to validate fully, but such is life.
• New menubar in place, loading time lag back again. It's gotta be the amount of scripting on the page, in terms of CSS2, CSS-P, and JS. Not good. At least the menu works under the three main browsers (even if there's a horriffic gap between the drop down sections and the main menu in Opera and Mozilla), anyhow.
• Added customised Altavista translation box. I'll probably have to replace the AV image with their stock imagery when this page eventually goes live, but for the moment, there it is!

OK, now the problem. No matter how long I look at it, I cannot figure out why Mozilla and Opera are not resolving the #text div box in the lighter shade of green all the way down. Curently, it's doing what I mentioned earlier, and I'm stumped.

Any ideas?

edit: Oops. better link to the CSS, I guess! right click and 'save as' on the following: [url]http://www.practicalairsoft.co.uk/beta/style-sheets/beta.css[/url]

Thanks in advance!

[Redcap]

WA-HEY! Cracked it!

I've finally figured out why the damned content area background wan't resolving to the ligher green colour - in the CSS sheet, for the #content ID, there was a line "height:10px".

It appears that this fooled Opera and Navigator/Mozilla into thinking that the content area was only 100 pixels high, whereas the actual content area was much larger. The result was that only the first 100px, top to bottom, was resolving in the lighter green; the rest was defaulting to the background colour.

Oddly, IE was unaffected by the CSS line in question, so there's another thing we've learned about IE behaviours!

Anyhow, I've removed the height element of the #content div from the style sheet, and the page now looks like it resolves as near a damnit correctly under all three major browsers (IE 5.5+, Op v7, Moz v0.9.9).

Now to dump that damned horizontal scrollbar!

[Redcap]

Two steps forward, three steps back...

• Right. The Horizontal scroll bar that's been plaguing a lot of you is on the way out. I've had to dump the scrolling background to the masthead, darn it, and while the scrollbar still appears under some brwoser/screen sizes, it's not as bad, in that it's a damn sight shorter. For the moment, then, I'm afraid we're going to have to live with it, until we've finally cracked the problem.
• New menubar in place, loading time lag back again. It's gotta be the amount of scripting on the page, in terms of CSS2, CSS-P, and JS. Not good.
  There is, however, a snag (isn't there always?). While it always appears under IE/Windows, It appears intermittently under Opera and Mozilla - sometimes it's there, sometimes it isn't, dammit. I've therefore included the link to index2.html, in the interim, while this is sorted out once and for bloody all.
  At least when the menu appears, it seems to work under the three main browsers (even if there's a horriffic gap between the drop down sections and the main menu in Opera and Mozilla), anyhow.

[DCElliott]

Roger

I think I can resolve some of the problems you are having, but I have been on vacation and am currently away from home, pecking away on a laptop that has none of my toys. So it won't be till the end of the week. CSS is more compact, generally speaking, than old-school presentational markup. If you want to blame something for slow loads, it has to be the menuing system, I would think. The graphics are roughly on par with your old page.

[Redcap]

Hiya, David -

Hope you're enjoying your holiday!

Yeah, I've been pouring over the HTML and CSS all day, getting blurred of eye, myself. I've come to the conclusion that the lag is due to the damned .js files, too, dammit.

Re the CSS and non-standard IE-only code in the CSS and HTML, yeah, hope you can help when you get back - that horizontal scrollbar is a real PITA; theoretically, it shouldn't be there, but in practice, there the damned thing is. I may have to restrict the width of the page to 640 or 800 pixels at the end of the day, in order to remove it, but I do *not* want to do that, as it looses the idea of the page self-resizing to the available screen width.

Presentation-wise, the drop-downs are the way to go, but damn, there HAS to be a better way, that's faster to load, than this.

A mate suggested the possibility that CSS could handle the drop-downs, and I'm currently investigating if this can be done via CSS, but I don't think so - CSS buttons and roll-overs, sure, but I think drop-downs are way too advanced for it to process under CSS2, thus by a process of elimination, javascripted drop-downs are the only method (I'm NOT going to go for Java navigation stuff - it's too system resource heavy for older machines, IMHO).

HOWEVER.

Form-based drop-down lists are a possibility under javascript, I think, and may load more quickly. Anyhow, the investigations go on, until I find a suitable compromise!

Again, Enjoy your holiday!

p.s. - And no, please do *not* send me a stick of that thrice-accursed sugar-cane rock! I have enough problems with my dentist as is

[Redcap]

OK, I've been messing about with includes and a smidgen of ASP. The page is now slit into managable bits, that can be updated more easily, by the use of the afore-mentioned includes, and phase one testing of that is done, at least; it resolves the same as the previous version, which is also still up, for comparison.

Original beta page for comparison: [url]http://www.practicalairsoft.co.uk/beta/index.html[/url]

• [url]http://www.practicalairsoft.co.uk/beta/index3.asp[/url]
  This is the ASP calling page template for each page of the site, when content migration has taken place. The includes noted below will then be called into each page. Thus, I'll be able to simplify updating, process changes, and so on and so forth. Each calling page will primarily consist the header meta data, include calls, and the copy for that page.
• [url]http://www.practicalairsoft.co.uk/beta/header.asp[/url]
  Ths contains the masthead information, including the menubar.
• [url]http://www.practicalairsoft.co.uk/beta/time.asp[/url]
  This is the time stamp called by the menubar and masthead
• [url]http://www.practicalairsoft.co.uk/beta/affiliate.asp[/url]
  The affiliate (Amazon) boxes on the left of the page, as well as the Altavista translation box.
• [url]http://www.practicalairsoft.co.uk/beta/footer.asp[/url]
  The footer, of course!

Eventually, I plan to incorporate my Snitz forums 2000 message boards into Practical Airsoft, but let's get one step at a time, eh?!

All I need do now, is lose those damned horizontal scroll bars!

[Joe the Large]

Redcap, I just looked at your new beta page in Mozilla and compared it with the "what it should look like " jpeg, and everything matches up. Looks good.

HTH

Joe

[Redcap]

Joe

Thanks for that - it helps; Which version/platform are you using, out of interest, and was it the HTML or ASP version of the page that you were viewing?

[Joe the Large]

I'm using Mozilla 5.0 (also designated v.1.2.1 for some reason ) on a Win98 machine.

It was the ASP page I looked at before, but I just took a look at the HTML page with the same good results. Looks like you may have solved the problem.

Joe

[Redcap]

Joe -

Thanks.

No, it hasn't solved the problem, darn it.

Looking at the site in Moz 0.9.9, and Opera 7, the line is still there. I've traced the problem to the self-resizing tracer line in the masthead, which utilised CSS-P; the sums for width exceed 100% of screen space, and I'm stuffed if I can figure out how to get around it. Check out the CSS sheet at [url]http://www.practicalairsoft.co.uk/beta/style-sheets/beta.css[/url] (remember to right click and "save as"), and you'll see it as well.

This has been a persistent thorn in my side in this development, and I'm no nearer solving it now, than I was a month ago. Good Lord, it's enough to make a Vicar kick in a stained glass window!

[DCElliott]

Check your body properties.

BODY {
    width:100%;
    height:100px;
    margin:10px;
    padding:0px;
	font :normal normal 1em Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; 
	/*adjust size up or down to taste*/
	color: #660000;
	background-color: #005533;

	scrollbar-face-color: #669966;
	scrollbar-highlight-color: #009900;
	scrollbar-shadow-color: #336633;
	scrollbar-3Dlight-color: #99CC99;
	scrollbar-arrow-color: #006600;
	scrollbar-track-color: #005533;
	scrollbar-darkshadow-color: #005533;
	background-image: url(../images/background2.jpg);
	background-repeat: repeat;
}

You have width:100% and margin:10px so your total width is 100%+20px which=horizontal scrollbar!

Change your body width to 99% and your margin to 0.5% and you will be a happier camper.

Blame my code again and you'll be getting illumination from that tracer where the sun don't shine.

DE

[Redcap]

Y'know, I went through that code three times, and must have become fixated on the bloody tracer line!

Too much Newcastle Brown, indeed! If I'm drinking ale, it's Watney's Bitter - though I prefer Wild Turkey, lol!

Soz bout that!

[Redcap]

WA-HEY!

Thanks, David - that solved it!

The CSS sheet has been uploaded, and it works under IE5.5/Win and Opera7/Win; there still seems to be a problem under Moz_0.9.9/Win, but I'll get there!

[animgirl]

Hey Red!
Could you re-post the test link? The one I have seems to be wrong now.
Sounds like you're getting places, I'd like to see the site.

animgirl

[DCElliott]

[url]http://practicalairsoft.co.uk/beta/index.asp[/url]

[Redcap]

Thanks for getting there more quickly than I could, David!

I had to remove index.html from the beta folder, as it appears that having index.html and index.asp caused some problems. I'm none too sure why, so if anyone knows, I'd sure be interested!

Re the content migration: Yep, it's going well thus far, with only a couple of small brain-teasers along the way!

Later!

[Redcap]

Whew!

Finally, the beta is complete, and is now the alpha!

All other minor problems will be sorted out in due course, but the site is, in the main, finished.

I've therefore published it fully it to the world at large!

Again: My thanks to all of you who helped, assisted, cajouled, persuaded, and nudged me in the right direction!

[Roger Stenning]

Ho-hum. It's turning out to be one of those years. I clear my cookie cache, and promptly forget my login details. Instead of being Redcap, I'm now using my own name, Roger. Just to confuse!

OK, for those of you still following this, the forums were up, and now they're down, due to abuse.

Instead, I'm trying to figure out how the hell I can rotate the affiliate sections of each page, in the same way that banner ads are rotated. I'm sure there's an easy fix, but I'm buggered if I can figure it out!

The thread to suggest things (to keep these forums tidy) is in: [URL=http://developers.evrsoft.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2617]Server-Side > ASP/ASP.NET and SQL Server/Access > Ad rotation question - but it's NOT a banner![/URL]

Thanks in advance!